Midwest Daygame is someone whose writing I enjoy and resonate with.
He writes insightfully, with much introspection about improving his daygame.
His is a fascinating situation, having had good success with girls prior to starting daygame, and being “the shiny object” i.e. a European guy in a small Midwestern US city.
Through his experiences of daygaming in a small city, he has developed ideas focused specifically on indoor daygame which he intends to share as a resource in the hopes that it will help you in your daygame.
In this post, Midwest discusses his indoor daygame resource, small city daygame in Midwest USA, the “shiny object” phenomenon mentioned above, his perspective on self-development and daygame improvement, what he takes from his online dating success into daygame, and more.
This is one I enjoyed reading greatly – his answers possess a powerful air of authenticity, especially when he writes of his experiences of his long term relationship.
I have added my own thoughts in italics.
10 Questions With Midwest Daygame
1. You are soon releasing a guide to help guys approach indoors better. What can we expect from your upcoming guide?
Thanks for asking about my upcoming indoor guide, I am excited to make progress on it and release it soon to help other guys who want to approach the women they want to go after, but find themselves currently located in a non-pedestrian city (this is very common in the US, as most cities require a car and are not walkable). When I started daygame in the Midwest, I was already somewhat aware of daygame as I described in my origin story post on my blog due to being born and raised in Europe. I had also read Roosh’s Day Bang, and in there he talks about approaching women in grocery stores, coffee shops, malls and the like. However, his approach was indirect, and relied heavily on verbal bamboozling until the girl was curious enough to ask a question about you. I found out about LDM when I was about 100 approaches in, and that really helped my game become stronger and tighter. I also started noticing all the subtle differences between approaching indoors and doing front stop opens on the street when I was in NYC last year for a week and got 76 sets under my belt, learning a ton while meeting up with some great daygamers.
When I came back to the Midwest, I was reflecting on my time in the Big Apple, and the thought came to me that I should write a guide to help guys who are aware of the direct approach and LDM in general, but live in a city where streets don’t have enough volume, so their best options are the grocery store, mall, college campus, or a department store. I suppose the guide would also be useful to daygamers who get their approaches in the street during winter time, when it is too cold to hit the streets and get good volume. In the guide, I talk about a couple of key indoor game concepts (they are key daygame concepts really, but get magnified indoors, and are essential to a calibrated approach). I give guys tips about how to find a good spot for approaches, how to be calibrated enough to game in the same location week after week indoors without any issues (I have heard of guys getting in trouble with security at the mall, for example – I have gotten 5-10 sets in a grocery store over a few hours week after week without any issue due to approaching in a smart, fun, calibrated way), and point out some subtle differences between indoor and street daygame so they can hit the ground running. This is the first ebook I am writing, so I am very excited to share it with the daygame community!
2. You have done most of your daygame in small cities, like myself previously although across the pond. What are your thoughts on improving at daygame in small cities?
I think dedication and self-reflection are key. As guys, we are programmed to get laid – evolution designed us that way! When you live in a bigger city, it is a lot easier to get out on the street and get more sets in with higher quality girls, and since there is a large numbers game factor to daygame, you are going on more dates, getting more lays, and all of that cycle makes your subconscious think you are better at game, so all those positive experiences really help in making you a better, more experienced player. Don’t get me wrong – that is the best way to tackle daygame, and it is no coincidence London is considered the Mecca of daygame – which is also a reason why I am going to Europe later this year, as I believe being in cities with high volume of foot traffic will make my game a lot better. However, what if online dating doesn’t really work for a guy, his social circle is non-existent or dried up, and he doesn’t like nightgame (or it is dried up due to a virus)? In that case, daygame is his best option, even in a city that doesn’t have pedestrian daygame as an option.
What do you do as a guy if you have to drive 15-30 minutes so you can get a few sets in? What do you do if you go to the mall, for example, and walk around for an hour without seeing much to approach with, and the girls you do wanna approach are on the lower level and you see them too late? What do you do if you can only get 5 good sets in for a week despite putting the hours in? The answer is simple – you have to focus on the small wins. A worse daygamer than you could be getting a lay more often than you due to his better logistics. I think a lot of daygamers give up due to their unrealistic expectations of how much pussy they will get once they approach – especially when you don’t see a lot of volume, it is key to focus on improving the sets that you do have. Going in the set direct, having strong eye contact, good body language, really making the girl feel you are hitting on her is key, otherwise it will lead to a lot of wasted time. That was a lesson I learned the hard way. I also still have a notebook – actually multiple notebooks now – that contain every approach I have done, along with thoughts on what I did well that approach/session, and what I can improve during the next session. Basically, since you are not exposed to the volume you want to have, you have to extrapolate and learn quicker from your sets, and cut out mistakes at the root. You also have to accept that you will get laid less than you would in a bigger city with more girls that you approach, and don’t let your ego derail you. There is a reason we rarely hear about guys doing daygame in smaller, non-pedestrian cities, and I won’t lie to you – sometimes it can get super tough to put in a lot of effort without much payoff. I do think that made me better when I went to NYC – having that volume really made me realize how much easier it is to get dates there, but it also made me realize I was focusing on the right things, and I could hold my own with the daygamers who live there. As I mentioned above though, at a certain point one hits a limit in a smaller city, and it is necessary to make the move to a bigger one if one is serious about their daygame.
Midwest’s thoughts on improving at daygame are ones which I agree with totally. You can read more of my thoughts in this post.
London is certainly a great city to learn and improve at daygame, but it is categorically not the Mecca of daygame. There’s an old cliché that goes “Warsaw is heaven for sevens, Prague is great for eights, and Moscow is a mine for nines”. How true this is is naturally subjective, but it is a fact that other cities have better quality of girls with comparable volume to London. That is not to say the city does not have attractive girls; London is a good stepping stone.
3. Girls in the US generally find you good looking as well as exotic because of your European background. How significant is this in meeting girls? Are there other elements besides this which are of equal or greater significance?
I think it helps, but not as much as most guys who have never done daygame think. I do dress well and girls who get to know me via social circle or online are curious about my accent, which makes it easier. Even in daygame, once I approach a girl, sometimes she hooks right away due to my accent, and that makes some sets go better. I even joke that having an accent is a good test – if a girl has ANY interest in me at all, she will ask about it or where I am from. I have had interactions when I was more inexperienced where I persisted while the girl was obviously not interested at all in me. Looking back on them, they all had that in common – she never asked me about my accent, and I have came to realize that if I approach a girl and she doesn’t ask about it within a couple of minutes but isn’t giving me other disinterest signals, then it is pretty obvious she is just being nice but not interested. Having that background and good European dress style helps, but I will tell you what – I used to have trouble escalating, and I used to be a bit more shy when I was younger. If a man doesn’t own his escalation and know how to move things forward with a woman, then all the rest goes out of the window. I have missed opportunities due to not making the first move (or a move) more times than I would like to admit. There is a lot of talk in daygame about SMV, and while that is key, I do believe the best thing a guy can do is learn how to be comfortable to be a sexual being and go after what he wants from girls. That alone can initially bring huge results, as most guys nowadays are shamed into hiding their dicks. Of course, once you learn that, you can hit a ceiling in the girls you get if you are not improving your SMV. So I would say my background helps me get girls interested in me quicker at times, but I have had to put in a lot of work to make sure my game is tight enough to lead from beginning to end, and have the right seduction attitude.
4. It is clear from your writing that you place a great emphasis on inner game i.e. looking inside oneself to achieve the desired results. Why do you find this important?
I mentioned this in one of the answers above, but I have had to focus on inner game due to doing most of my approaches in the Midwest of America, where volume for daygame is really not the best (although I did move recently and can now work remotely, which will enable me to pursue my daygame goals and travel a lot more in the next few years). I have had to meticulously analyze and document every approach I do, simply because being raised in Eastern Europe and then living in the Midwest can be a special type of Hell if I don’t have the right attitude – imagine growing up around slim, beautiful women and then living in a place where 60% of women (and people, really) are obese. Without the right attitude, that could lead to depression and sexual deprivation, as well as pedestalizing those women that actually look halfway decent. That is why I put great energy on myself – hitting the gym, crushing it at work, improving eye contact, fashion, body language, and actually approaching with intent. After each session, it wasn’t about how many approaches I did, or how many numbers I got, or how many dates and lays eventually came out of those. It was about me – did I go after the girls that I liked? Did I show intent? Did the girl know I was interested in her and what my intentions were?
Here’s something I have been thinking about recently as well that ties into the above – as guys, we tend to only care about getting laid. Social media also makes it easy to look at other guys who seem to get laid “easier” than us (don’t believe everything you hear on social media, guys!). However, in general, there likely are guys that get laid easier than you or me, and we have to accept that. If you have a fixed mindset, you likely look at them, or how hard daygame can be sometimes, and you say to yourself “I am not meant for this. I am not like Chad. Girls don’t really like me for me” and then give up, since you have a lot of work to do to actually see some results (Red Quest talks about how you only see the tip of the spear when you look at other guys on his blog). With Growth mindset, you tell yourself honestly: “I dress poorly. My posture is bad. I can’t hold eye contact with 75 year old Brenda the cashier, let alone a 18yr HB7.5! I am out of shape, and I don’t have any hobbies. Improving all of those could take years, and during that time I won’t get laid as much as Chad (if at all). But I am OK with that, and I will improve my SMV and game hard until I get to where I wanna be. I will base my happiness on whether I am making progress rather than whether I am getting laid.”
Now obviously, I am exaggerating by picking a guy that is at a very low SMV to begin with. But you know what? There are guys out there like that, and it is important to realize that the world is unfair – a guy can start daygaming and get results right away, due to having all the other pieces of his life in place, and he just needs to get the approach part correct. Other guys might need YEARS to see the results they want, and we all want to get laid. It can be uncomfortable for guys reading this to admit that they need to put in a lot of effort up front to achieve their goals. That is what the growth mindset is in a nutshell – focusing on process over results, and ensuring you truthfully analyze yourself, write down your weaknesses, and tackle them one by one (or multiple at the same time if possible, such as hitting the gym AND approaching if you aren’t already). Comparing yourself to Chad is a futile exercise, one that only leads to disappointment (as you can tell, I am not a fan of the whole Chad meme). We should only compare with our old selves, and honestly assess whether we are doing our best to level up in daygame and in life. I believe a man should use the growth mindset in anything he wants to achieve. And guess what? Sometimes you put all the effort in the world, reach your limitations… and then realize someone else is STILL better than you! And if you did the process above the right way, you accept that – because you did your best and reached your limitations, you are happy you gave it your all. Why does it matter if someone reached their higher limitations than yours, and is seeing better results?
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self” – Ernest Hemingway.
I find the quote above encapsulates perfectly the Growth Mindset that Midwest writes about. In reality, this principle has been referred to by many names – Core Confidence by RSDTyler, Internal Referencing by Nick Krauser, and the more common Winner’s Mentality or Self-Esteem. It underpins any success in (day)game because it creates mental resilience and teaches calm amidst difficulty, which allows one to determine clearly what the correct course of action is to achieve success/goals.
Midwest’s analysis on the difference between guys who start daygame with an already high SMV versus guys without such an advantage is also key, and in my experience is something many overlook due to ego-investment and/or fear. This excellent post by Nick Krauser entitled Reveal vs Restructure discusses this clearly, and is excellent for gaining overarching insight regarding improving SMV and daygame.
Ultimately, remember the quote by Hemingway. No one matters more in your life than you.
5. You posted your thoughts on daygame when you were at 200 approaches, now you are at approximately 600. What new things have you learned, if any? What do you still find more difficult to do?
I originally started my daygame blog because I didn’t see that many beginner blogs at the time, and I felt like my second 100 approaches were much better than my first 100 approaches, I felt like I learned a ton, and I wanted to share my experiences with other guys, and maybe inspire them to start their own daygame journey. Having said that, I have learned a lot since then. For example, I open some sets now, and even though it seems to be going somewhat well, I can sense that the girl is not fully invested due to having a boyfriend or a husband. Soon after, I found out that is the case, and I give myself a silent nod. All of that came from experience daygaming – before, I would have gotten excited the set was going well, and then ended up disappointed when I heard about her boyfriend. In reality, those specific girls are interested somewhat but not available, and now I am better equipped to realize those situations and handle them.
I had also not done many front stops until my trip to NYC due to not daygaming on streets, and I am proud to say that with the help of some daygamers like Breeze and Mr. V, I was able to get my front stop down and use it in NYC, which will also serve me well when I daygame in Europe. It was awesome to see how sexual some encounters could be right off the bat due to coming in close and delivering a direct opener with sexual intent. The street also helps create a little bubble that can’t be seen indoors (damn you, old guy who has to reach for the bread as I am talking to a cute girl in the grocery store).
As far as what I find difficult, if you asked me before I started, I would have told you that by the time I had done 650 approaches, I would be a master at it and crushing it. In reality, I am always astonished and humbled at how hard daygame really is – and there are days where it feels like I am a beginner and make many mistakes one after the other, followed by days where I have success. I also find the fact that I cannot get consistent volume tough,as I am a guy who grew up playing sports and loves working out right now and realize how important practice is to getting better at anything, including daygame. I did make some changes this year to make that easier and more natural for me, and I am looking forward to being able to get more practice and more sets once the world reopens as well.
I have also came to the realization that in order to get great at daygame and truly achieve my potential and goals, I need to start embracing and enjoying every moment of it, as daygame can have extreme highs and lows. If I go out and have a terrible day approaching where my game is all over the place, I have to accept that as part of the process. If I have a day (or weeks) in a row where I seem to be daygaming girls to nowhere and not getting numbers, dates or lays, I have to accept it as part of the process of getting better. Most of us enjoy and fondly remember our good number closes which lead to date(s), bounce backs and lays – but what percentage does that make up when you compare it to all the blowouts, the quick sets, the quick rejections, the sets to nowhere? In order to keep your sanity as a daygamer, I believe I have to enjoy all of it, and accept it as part of the game. I am not quite there to be honest, but I have made a lot of progress since the beginning.
Something I learned in my time doing daygame in purgatory small cities is that I only focused on the positives, and there were no negative – only feedback and points on which to improve. I detail this more in Small City Daygame.
6. In your lays before daygame (which the reader can read about here, here and here), you had good results & game. What were the elements which allowed you to do well in this? What can you transfer into daygame?
Now that I actively daygame and take interest in improving my game and SMV, I am astonished how bad some parts of my game were, while other parts seem to have came more naturally to me. I think part of that was due to having grown up close to a family member in Europe who did daygame before it was actually a thing just because he was very sexual and liked dating different women, and being around someone like that and observing them was a goldmine for picking up how to behave around women. I had always been interested in dressing well and grooming myself too, and that is also something that makes a huge difference for a lot of guys – a good haircut, well fitting clothes and groomed beard can do wonders for both self-confidence and the way a girl looks at you as you approach her as she is going about her day. My accent here in the US also helps with polarity – some girls are naturally attracted to it right away, while others don’t care for it much. Either way, that helps me get girls off the fence quicker and get them interested or get them done, which I have realized with experience is a good thing.
I had also always been focused on improving myself – even before daygame, I loved working out, learning new facts, gaining new skills, meeting new people, making more money and travelling around the world. All of that has helped me with my daygame, as I had been doing those things for years given how passionate I was about them. I think a lot of guys start doing daygame and realize that they should be doing all this work to improve their SMV, while I had already been doing those as I was trying to level up before daygame. I think that made a difference with my mindset going in – honestly, my passions come before daygame, and I treat daygame as a hobby and a nice way to meet new girls and make new memories. I do love daygaming and can’t wait to hit the streets hard as soon as they are full of cute girls again, but I also realize that as a man, there are things and goals I have that are more important than women and daygame.
7. Are there any things you can take from your online dating experience into daygame? What is your advice regarding daygame vs online dating?
I believe I took a few things from my online dating experience that helped me when I started daygame, and still help me now. As a European, I have always had a knack for dressing well and how important that is, and online dating really reaffirmed that point for me – you have to dress for success, and you have to take good pictures that pique the girl’s interest. Going to the grocery store? Dress well. Going for a walk? Dress well. You can dress well and feel good no matter where you are going, don’t let your subconscious say “You are just stepping out for a few minutes to grab bread, just put the first shirt and pants you see on and let’s go”. You never know when you will run into a girl you like, and I also believe dressing well at all times trains your mind to accept that you are always on top of your game and you are always a high value man. In online dating, the picture is what gets the girl interested at first, while in daygame, it is your outfit, your confident approach, your solid non-verbal communication. They all tie in together, as a guy who dresses well, is confident and is going places naturally has stories to tell and pictures to back up those good stories. Nothing exists in a vacuum.
Another thing I learned from online dating is how to escalate properly once on dates, which is also key once I get daygame leads out on a date. At first, I was nervous about making moves, and those dates usually didn’t turn into a second date. I analyzed why I was uncomfortable, and I realized I needed to work on my value and being comfortable with myself, as well as to just go on more dates. The classic daygame advice “just go talk to more girls” was applicable for me even before daygame – “just go on more dates and make moves”. I believe that my experience getting dates and lays online before starting daygame has made it easier for my daygame dates, which makes me more comfortable escalating and leading the girl throughout the whole process.
“Nothing exists in vacuum.” Excellent perspective by Midwest.
Something I keep at the forefront of my mind in life and not just in daygame is: “How you do one thing is how you do everything.”
Some athletes say “Train how you intend to perform”, which is also highly related.
Instead of doing something to become attractive whenever it’s daygame time, why not simply be attractive always? This moves you from faking it to finally making it. The goal in game is to become the attractive guy after all, not just to act like one. Transformation, not imitation.
8. You have amassed extensive experiences regarding how women truly are when it comes to sex – things society never want us to know – both from online dating and through situations in normal life. What are your best insights on this, and how has it shaped your interactions with girls?
I have always been aware of how women are and what they enjoy due to my upbringing in Eastern Europe, but I also believed that there is a small subset of girls that aren’t like that, and for some reason I believed that smart girls are different in that aspect. My long-term relationship was eye opening in that regard: she was beautiful, smart and ambitious, and the first few months everything, including the sex, was great. People would even comment how well we got along, and how perfect we were for each other. Then, things slowly went downhill, and truthfully I should have ended it a couple months before I did. It stung, of course, but once the emotions wore off, I realized something – if things didn’t work out with a girl like that, then it really is true that society makes up a lot of fantasies that we as men willingly fall prey for. If a girl that looked like a unicorn wasn’t, what does that leave for the rest of the girls? Ever since then, I slowly started to internalize that all women have the capacity to be sexual beings for a guy they are into, and I went from being a guy who hesitated to make a move to a guy who now sometimes actually escalates too quickly (see both of my near misses in NYC that attest to this fact). Nowadays, I am much more grounded into what I want and going for it, rather than being worried about what the girl wants, and assuming I have to do things a certain way to get her to like me. I am much more vibe-oriented, and focusing on presenting myself as the cool guy who has travelled a lot and enjoys the finer things in life, and girls enjoy seeing that side of me, and relate to it much quicker than they ever had before.
I think deep down, most of us realize that humans have evolved for sex and passion, but some guys (most of us at some point in our lives, really) have been indoctrinated into too much bullshit from society, and they have trouble breaking the chains. Luckily for me, I never was that guy 100%, even though I did have some erroneous beliefs as I was learning more about women. I would advise guys to get sexual with as many girls as they can as quickly as they can, and see how different girls might have different rules when it comes to sex, but once you lead them to it, all of them enjoy having sex with attractive guys. Once a guy gains enough experience, it really is easy to extrapolate those experience and read situations better, which of course leads to more sex and opportunites. It really is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Well said. As I have progressed through daygame and life, I’ve found that identifying patterns – as you allude to here – is absolutely necessary to achieve sustained success.
9. You wrote that “even if you approach in unusual circumstances in an indirect way, if your game is good enough, you can realize that the opportunity is there for the taking and pursue it further”. What are the factors to work on to make one’s game “good enough” to approach successfully in all situations and in various ways e.g. indirect?
The more approaches I do, the more I have started to notice that even if I go indirect (which doesn’t happen too often for me, I like starting the approach on the right foot), I tend to have the correct eye contact, posture and smirk on my face that lets the girl know what I want. Girls aren’t stupid, and the cute ones get approached a lot via a variety of mediums, so they have evolved to know when a guy is hitting on them subconsciously. So I believe that is the ultimate goal of approaching women – getting to the point where we are truly authentic, and we feel no shame or remorse for going after the women we are interested in, we just do it and see what happens. I don’t feel like I am quite there yet all the time to be honest – some days I make excuses that I know don’t make a lot of sense, yet they still pop up in my head and I have to prove them wrong by doing the approach and seeing what happens. Once a guy is truly congruent in his desires and comfortable with himself, even indirect approaches have sexual charge to them, because even if the words don’t say explicitly why he approached, the non-verbal communication does that and the girl receives it right away.
On that note, I am pretty excited to get to the point where I have done thousands of approaches, and I am able to just walk outside and do an approach or two just like that (something easier done in Europe rather than America, possibly excluding NYC). If you look at all the top performers of their field, they all spend countless hours perfecting their craft, and realize that sometimes small details make a big difference. A guy who has done thousands of approaches, approaches regularly, texts multiple girls, dates multiple girls, and constantly has new girls in his bed is a force to be reckoned with, and I believe that girls can sense that, whether the approach is indirect or not. I aim to be that guy after I put in a few more years of solid work!
10. What are your plans and goals for daygame, and for the future?
As I mentioned briefly above in one of the answers to a previous question, I will be spending a lot more time in Europe this year, and I do plan to travel a decent amount over the next few years as I work remotely. I expect more European countries to reopen in summer and beyond, and if that happens I will do a few jaunts after I spent some time in my home country working, catching up with family and friends, and of course daygaming. I do have quite a few cities on my shortlist for this year – Kyiv, St. Petersburg, Warsaw, Belgrade, Prague, Budapest, etc. – and I am sure I won’t be able to hit all of them this year, so I will pick and choose as the situation around Europe becomes clearer over time. There are also other cities in Europe I would like to jaunt in upcoming years, as well as Latin America eventually (especially Colombia and Brazil). I am interested in history too, so I could spend years just exploring new cities and daygaming them!
My main goal with daygame short-term is getting to 1000 approaches (around 350 more to go), and seeing which European cities fit my vibe and also I have the most success with girls. Longer-term, I would like to find a few cities I really like and split my time between them, while dating multiple girls in each city and building memories with them, approaching new girls as I see fit. I am still in my 20s, so I don’t see myself as someone who wants to settle anytime soon – I have too much I want to achieve in the next 10 years, and daygame is one of my hobbies that I have an active interest in improving and enjoying, and it also is an integral part of who I am and who I want to be.
Thanks for having me on your blog, I enjoyed all the insightful questions! May the Daygame Gods be with you, and hopefully we meet in person one day!